tripleb2000
34 ( +1 | -1 )
Hedgehog defence I have been playing the hedgehog defence on black in nearly all my games (except the fingerslip against dgeirek) and find it very rewarding. I do not know what is white's best reply so I can't give any notation except the finished position for black, which is:
1)e6
2)d6
3)Nf6
4)Be7
5)0-0
6)Bb7
7)Nbd7
8)c6
9)Qc7
10)a6
Anyone with variations are especially asked to post
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blackbaron
30 ( +1 | -1 )
Hedgehog defence eh? Havent heard of that in years....I used to play it myself for a while , until I found white was charging forward Kingside with all his pawns...breaking the structure of the defence. I would be glad to play you a themed game on it if you want..you pick my 1st ten moves if you want
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soikins
38 ( +1 | -1 )
hedgehog As far as I know, GM Shipov is writing a book on the subject (or has written bu hasen't published yet). Thought, it will be in Russian. But his games might help you, he is a big expert on hedgehog. He did some analysis on the openeing for CasparovChess.com some years ago. I'll check if I still have it at home (probably I don't have the english version). Try to google "Shipov Hedgehog" you will fins some annotated games.
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tripleb2000
65 ( +1 | -1 )
Origins I read of this opening from the "complete book of Chess stategy" of which I have a copy, and have used it for 4 years! I have won in black more times than white, the main weakness being an underdeveloped kingside. But once the king is safely castled whicever way, this opening really packs a punch, especially by cramping white's queenside.
White has a standard answer I think, with black's queen bishop pawn being exchanged with white's queen pawn. Development for black is mainly queenside, while white is kingside.
Mostly castled opposite ways.
tripleb2000
7 ( +1 | -1 )
Help Anyone got an accurate way to proceed for white? The board link is above.
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philaretus
5 ( +1 | -1 )
Careful, tripleb2000..... Commenting on ongoing games is a breach of etiquette.
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jeffreydot
82 ( +1 | -1 )
Yes I agree with you philaretus, but it seems as though they have both agreed to play this game in order to learn more of the in's and out's of this defense. I am sure neither side would be offended.
I have read up a little on the sicilian kan, which stated that some variations could lead up to a hedgehoge defense. In the book, the main factor for this defense was the pawn structure. I do not have the book w/ me, and I have not researched this on the web before posting, however I felt some may want to know an opening you can go for that could lead into that particular defense, with moves for both sides. If I find a link I will post it later. Otherwise we will have to wait until I get back home to write out the moves from the book.
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tripleb2000
21 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks Thanks Jeffreydot! Your advice is highly valued, philaretus, but we are playing this game to examine this opening. Anyway, I didn't know that and will take heed to any advice.
tripleb2000
34 ( +1 | -1 )
Getting tight The game is getting real tight. I think I, playing black, have a little disadvantage because of my stuck rook and knight. No breakthrough for me yet. balckbaron is playing really well. Any people with ideas are specially invited to post.
board #2129579
tripleb2000
8 ( +1 | -1 )
Urgent Comments on the current position are needed urgently. It's burning down our lines.
peppe_l
180 ( +1 | -1 )
It seems You both have agreed it is ok to comment on ongoing game (between you and blackbaron)? Still, I choose to comment on past moves only. I have very little experience of Hedgehog structure, but here are some notes anyway. These are merely my opinions, so please remember I may be wrong :-)
First, I am not so fond of 3.e5. Black conceded some space with d6-e6, so the way I see it is was logical to secure "ideal pawn centre" by supporting e4-d4.
I believe White missed several opportunities to play d5! Having better development, safer king and more space usually means opening the centre is a good plan. More exact analysis is necessary, though.
10.h4? was most certainly a mistake and Black exploited it by playing a strong move - 10...h5! IMO 11...d5 (to close the position and prevent d5!) would have been very good. The pin would have still been there, so maybe Black could have played "radical" 12...Kf8!? followed by, say 13...Nb8. For example Nh6, Kg7, etc. Eventually, after some preparations Black could have played thematic counter-strike c5, followed by Nc6. This may be slow but after 10.h4? h5! it was very difficult for White to generate any play on Kingside. Maybe the best plan would have been to relocate the light-square bishop to c2, to take care of weaknesses in f5 & g4. Sample line: 12...Kf8!? 13.c3 Nb8 14.a4 Bd7 15.Bc2 Bb5! with plans like Nh6, Kg7, c5, Nc6.
13.g4 looked dubious to me, maybe 13.d5 was stronger, not sure. But 17...f6 was certainly bad, giving White a chance to rip the position open with 18.gxh5 (threatening Qxe6!). However, after 18.g5? f5! the Kingside was closed for good :-)
Also, I have to point out the difference between dark-square bishops. White bishop is hemmed in by friendly pawns while Black bishop is free to move and control important diagonals.
Overall, very interesting game so far!
blackbaron
25 ( +1 | -1 )
I find this defence with a diffucult pawn structure is giving me problems breaking through with my own pawn,,so I think best attack may be for free Knight to dance around them..watch what he does next
blackbaron
12 ( +1 | -1 )
10.h4 was a mistake you say , but I dont see why it is..what do you think was wrong with it. It was meant to be part of a kingside pawn mass advance
tripleb2000
39 ( +1 | -1 )
Thank you For all your comments. The game is realy getting hot, but I'm down by a lot of material. Good foresight, peppe_l, for commenting only on past moves.( i forgot to put that in, It will cause this thread getting a lot of disagreements). I'm down by a rook and a paw, giving away a very valuable knight. Anyone favour my chances? Or blackbaron with his overwhelming material advantage?(Hey, I'm only 1279!)
basti1981
202 ( +1 | -1 )
10. h4 was probably not such a great idea beacuse: it let some weak squares behind and black could have tried 10. ... h5 and Nh6 afterwards, from where it had the choice between the squares f5 or g4.
10. ... h5 however was the correct response to 10. h4, because it shut down the King side pretty much, as peppe_! pointed out, if black had played it a little more carefully it would have been hard to make any real progress on the kingside for white, since a move like g4 would usually lead to more weaknesses on white's kingside.
Exchanging the light square Bishops was more helpful for black than for white IMO, therefore a retreat to c2 with it might have been better.
Black made a couple of bad choices attempting to knock out the center via f6 was one (white should have never played g5 allowing black to finally close up the whole kingside via f5 and gaining a strong pawn). Nevertheless I guess it would have been better to pressurize the pawn on d4 via c5 (instead of f6) (generally speaking: it's always better to attack such a chain of pawns at its "root") leaving the pawn on e5 as a nice target for black's pieces.
Nd2-b3-c5 was well seen by white.
Castling, I don't know, since there was no acute danger for the black King, I think I would have prefered to play Nd5 or Kf7 instead (covering e6 and activating the Rook on h8, the last problem to solve for black afterwards could've been to find a better square for this ill-placed Bishop on d8), a plan might have been to open the b-file (a5-a4+b5-b4) later on.
I did not really get the point of 32. ... Qc4 32. ... Nd5 might have caused more trouble for white, it would have at least threatened to win back some wood via 33. ... Nxc3 34. Rxc3 Qxd4+ 35. Ke2 Qxc3 or 35. Qd3 Qxf4+
Anyway it was a nice idea by the two of you to ask for some help for your Game (I don't see any major problems in it, since both opponents agreed on it and if some comments are helpful to improve their game, why not?), BUT I'm also just commenting on past moves, just in case.
tripleb2000
15 ( +1 | -1 )
Game over 1. e4 d6
2. d4 e6
3. e5 Nd7
4. f4 Be7
5. Nc3 b6
6. Bb5 a6
7. Bc6 Ra7
8. Qg4 g6
9. Nf3 h6
10. h4 h5
11. Qh3 Bb7
12. Bxb7 Rxb7
13. g4 dxe5
14. fxe5 c6
15. Be3 b5
16. a3 Nb6
17. O-O-O f6
18. g5 f5
19. Bf4 Qc7
20. Rd3 Bd8
21. Rh-d1 Ne7
22. Nd2 O-O
23. Nb3 Nc4
24. Nc5 Rb6
25. Nxe6 Qb7
26. Nxf8 Kxf8
27. Qf3 b4
28. axb4 Rxb4
29. b3 Ba5
30. bxc4 Rb2
31. Kd2 Qb4
32. c5 Qc4
33. Ra1 Bxc3+
34. Rxc3 Qxd4+
35. Kc1 Rb5
36. Rxa6 Qg1+
37. Kd2 Rb1
38. Qe2 Qd4+
39. Rd3 Qxf4+
40. Re3 Qb4+
41. Rc3 Qd4+
1/2-1/2
tripleb2000
peppe_l
20 ( +1 | -1 )
blackbaron "10.h4 was a mistake you say , but I dont see why it is..what do you think was wrong with it. It was meant to be part of a kingside pawn mass advance"
Please read basti1981's post. He gave very good explanation IMO.
tripleb2000
37 ( +1 | -1 )
note Blackbaron is going for another game, not rated this time. We'll call it hedgehog defence2. As again, comments on past moves have benn allowed by both blackbaron and me. When the game starts I will post the board link. My special thanks to all who have voiced opinions on the past game. Remember, past moves only!
tripleb2000
9 ( +1 | -1 )
request Anyone got a notated game by a grandmaster who used thehedgehog defence? It'll be good for me to study. Thx
blackbaron
15 ( +1 | -1 )
This is an unrated game , so it is OK by me if anyone wants to make comment good or bad on the play..I am sure triple b doesnt mind either. Cheers
mormel12
12 ( +1 | -1 )
tripleb2000 next time you wanna create a link, just type a space first.
that'll do the trick:)
greetings
tripleb2000
11 ( +1 | -1 )
thx mormel12. The game is still in the build up stages, so I don't think anybody can comment on it yet, except on strengths and weaknesses
tripleb2000
14 ( +1 | -1 )
update We're halfway through the game, But I'm wondering about whether my choice to castle was ok. I t seems good, but white has a more active kingside now.